Collin was nice enough to take the time to talk shop, share
tales from his dark past, give advice to other podcasters, and share his wisdom
on dealing with jealousy, negativity, and criticism - all before the Fun Simulation 2000 mic at Reed’s Local
Tap.
JEALOUSY & COMEDY
COMEDY OF CHICAGO: Why do you think
comics tend to get so hurt when other comics get things that they didn’t get?
COLLIN BULLOCK:
It drove me crazy when I was starting comedy, but it’s all ego. I think the ego
is detrimental to your creative process - at least it has been for me. Which is
weird because it’s CRUCIAL to have this ego in order to pursue this thing and
say, “I’m going to get up on stage, and tell jokes, and make people like me!”
That takes ego. And then to say, “I should be paid to do this—I should be paid
a living wage to do it!” That is a ridiculously egocentric thing. So, we all
have egos to some degree, and it sucks! I find it hard to believe when someone
says, “Oh, I’m totally cool with this person getting things instead of me!” [laughs] I guess you just have to learn
to deal with it over time.
COC: How about
when younger, less experienced comics pass you up? Has that happened to you?
How do you deal with that?
CB: [laughs] Oh sure! I have been doing
stand up for 5 years, which isn’t very long in the grand scheme of things. But,
in the 5 years that I’ve been here, I’ve seen literally, maybe 100 people
become “The Hottest Thing in Chicago” for a brief time. I’ve seen them go from
nothing to the height of the fucking game. But, I’ve also seen them drop off, I've
seen them quit, I've seen them fade away. What can you do to deal with it? What
I did for a very long time—which did NOT work—was to get bitter and resentful,
be a passive aggressive dick to them, and say things like, “Cute set, asshole!
All the unpaid showcases love you!” [laughs]
COC: Comics aren’t
supposed to worry about other comics’ accomplishments, but how do you not??
CB: This
is a problem that I run into with jealousy and how much it consumes me. But
when I DON’T do sets, I start to become more obsessed with how other comedians
are doing and less obsessed with what I’m doing or could be doing. It’s easy to
lose sight of the reason why I do stand up.
COC: How has your
mindset about jealousy and negativity changed over the years?
CB: If
you’ve been properly humbled, what you have to realize is 2 things: 1) There
will ALWAYS be people getting things that you want. That will NEVER go away, no
matter what you get, no matter what level you get to. It will never fucking
stop, and it will always piss you off. 2) It doesn’t even matter. The person
who everybody says is “The Biggest Thing in the World” will either quit or
move. You just can’t sustain all that hype. Hype is just a show business
thing—to rush and suck the dick of whoever is being hyped up. It runs on hype.
COC: Elaborate on
how you were “properly humbled”.
CB: I’ve
seen people that I was a dick to get on television and achieve all sorts of
things. Which is one of the most humbling things in the world! All that stuff
will fuck with your head, but when I am actually up on stage and I’m making a
room full of strangers laugh, I’m immediately reminded that, “Oh, THIS is what
matters!”
COC: What is it
like to finally get the things that all the comics want?
CB: First
of all, in my opinion, Comedians You
Should Know is probably the best show in Chicago. All the guys who run it
are great, and it’s a great fucking show. But for years, it drove me crazy that
I couldn’t get on that show. Then, I got on it, I had a great time, I had a
great set—those guys run an awesome fuckin’ room! But afterward, I got in my
car and I did a shitty open mic, and I was just a regular person. It’s just
another set, ultimately. And same goes for whatever clubs I wanted to work—I
wanted to get into Comedy Club on State in Madison for a really long time, and
I finally did, but once again, it’s JUST another set.
COC: How true is
it that all comedians do comedy out of insecurity?
CB: Some
people get into comedy for reasons of insecurity. The cliche
of comedians is that they’re insecure and they’re troubled. Which is not
universally true, but it’s true more often than not in my experience. I once got
in a fight with an old girlfriend who told me, “You will never make enough
people laugh to make your dad like you.” [laughs]
And I was like, “Ah, fuck you...for being right!” [laughs]
COC: Before
comedy, what was school like for you?
CB: I was
NOT a particularly good student. I had a very atypical high school experience.
I was never very social, I was just always sad. I never liked things. I was
just weird and mopey. [laughs]
COC: What things
did interest you?
CB: Eh,
just eating. Eating and napping. [laughs]
[laughs] You were an old man as a child.
[laughs] Pretty
much, I was an old man at age 9. [laughs]
Na, but I liked comic books, I liked rock ‘n roll once I discovered it, I
did theater, but then I got expelled my junior year of high school...
TROUBLED YOUTH
COC: Damn, how did
you get expelled?
CB: I
wrote a story in creative writing class about how I wanted another student to
die from explosive diarrhea. And it was all jealousy, which is what I’ve come
to realize about my life. Jealousy has crippled me and it is something that
I’ve dealt poorly with. My jealousy in other peoples’ success has been very
negative to my stand up career. And this thing in high school happened all
because this kid got some job at a video store that I really wanted to get a
job at. I wasn’t going to hurt anybody, I was just fucking around in creative
writing class, but the teacher found it and it was right around Columbine... It
was fucked up. I got expelled, and my parents sent me to military school.
COC: Wow. What was
military school like?
CB: It was
not an academy run by the United States military—I call it a military school to
just explain it easier. It was very disciplinary—in fact, it was part of a
family of schools that were later shut down for child abuse. But, the weirdest
part wasn’t being at that school, it was being removed from the normal social
aspects of high school. I think it fucked me up socially, because those are
very formative years: Learning how to socialize, learning how to talk to girls,
learning how to create social structures. And I didn’t really have that. I
already naturally isolated myself, so to have this forced isolation, I feel
like it’s affected me for the rest of my life.
COC: Damn.
CB: And
let me tell you what they did to send me to military school—it’s an amazing
story!
COC: What
happened?
CB: My
parents didn’t tell me I was going to military school. They hired two guys to
kidnap me. These two heavy set Italian guys came to my bed at 4:00AM,
handcuffed me, threw me in the back of a car, and drove me to Idaho. They
literally had me kidnapped at age 16. It was terrible. Those places have been
since closed down for a reason. So, I feel I still have a bit of resentment
from that.
COC: Holy shit! What
was it like being all the way out in Idaho?
CB: Idaho
had a lot of doomsday preppers and anti-government folks because you were SO
far away from anything. They sat us down and shaved our heads—and I remember
one kid was like, “I don’t cut my hair!” And they were like, “Great! We’ll do
it for ya!” And they held him down and did it. The people running it I feel
were morally bad human beings. A few were good, but most of them were sadistic
who wanted to put power over children. My therapist once told me she thought I
had PTSD because of it, and maybe I do, I dunno.
COC: How often are
you in therapy?
CB: I see
a therapist every week. I am medicated with anxiety medication—Paxil, which I
think works pretty well.
COC: How do you
trust opening up to a complete stranger like that?
CB: Different
therapists are different. I feel that you should go to different ones until you
find the one that’s right for you. And you’re vulnerable with them because that
is what they fucking do—that’s what they know how to do. If they are any
goddamn good, they know how to create an environment where you do feel open
with them.
COC: How has
therapy helped your comedy?
CB: I
think I’m better on stage when I am in a more comfortable place. People will
say, “The miserable ones are the best at comedy.” And yes, that’s true for some
people. But for me, if I’m truly miserable and at the height of depressive
episode or a terribly manic episode, I am not focused enough and not present
enough in the moment to construct a good thing.
TALKIN’ SHOP
COC: When did your
interest in comedy come about?
CB: My
earliest comedy memory when I was 9 when I went to New York City with my mom to
visit my aunt. We stayed in the World Trade Center as a matter of fact, because
it had a hotel. We went to Caroline’s Comedy Club—my mom always loved stand up.
We saw Jeffrey Ross and Patrice O’Neal. It was crazy! And when we left that
night, my mom told me, “I would be happy if you were a stand up.”
COC: Who are some
of your comedy inspirations?
CB: The
biggest inspiration for me in the past few years has been Pete Holmes. And I
didn’t know much about him until I opened for him in Madison—humble brag! [laughs] He told me that I had the best
9/11 joke he’s ever heard. And that filled my heart 10 billion times over. He
was the nicest human being in the fuckin’ world. I love that guy. It was so
inspiring to watch him do comedy and see how free and in the moment he was.
COC: What do you
think it takes to be able to “find your voice”?
CB: You
have to look for the moments that make you happiest on stage. You get in that
pocket, you get in that groove, and you just feel it. And that’s when the
audience is laughing the most as well. It’s when you feel the most free.
HANDLING CRITICISM
COC: The places
that refused to book you, did they let you know why?
CB: Ya
know, there are places that won’t book me because they say I don’t do enough
personal comedy. That, and because I’m an asshole and I’ll go on Facebook &
Twitter rants. [laughs] One person
once told me, “I don’t want to book you because I don’t know what you’re trying
to do. I don’t know what you’re going for. I don’t know who you are as a
person.” They told me that, “You as a human are funny with interesting ideas,
but you as a comedian are a human pretending to be a comedian.” Which I found
to be very interesting and made me rethink what I’m doing.
COC: How do you
handle such criticism?
CB: Whenever
people criticize my comedy, I try to keep an open mind because I don’t want to
be the asshole who’s like, “I’m fuckin good! I’m perfect!” I agree that I have
a number of problems in comedy, but I don’t feel that personal comedy is
inherently better than impersonal comedy. But at the same time, it is something
that I’d like to do more of and something that I am experimenting more with, to
be more open on stage. It’s an interesting challenge that I think would be more
cathartic.
COC: How do you
not get offended when receiving criticism?
CB: It’s
one of those things where if someone has a criticism of my act, it’s very easy
to construct a narrative of, “Fuck you! You’re holding me down!” Even if you
don’t agree with the criticism, at least think about it. And you don’t
necessarily have to do personal stuff, just find what groove that you want to
do. Louis C.K. and Steven Wright are both brilliant and genuine comedians who
are both being their genuine selves, but they’re both radically different.
COC: How long were
you doing comedy when you started this?
CB: About
2 years. I started it somewhere around 2011. And I listen to a lot of podcasts.
Obviously, WTF was the biggest of that time—still is. I enjoy talking, nonstop.
[laughs] And so it was just the
notion of, “Oh here’s an art form where you can just talk!”
COC: You interview
a lot of random & interesting people on the podcast. What kind of people
would you like to interview that you haven’t yet?
CB: I
would love to interview a theoretical physicist—just because I’m not good at
math, and to me it just sounds cool. [laughs]
I’d love to interview a religious leader, like a priest or a rabbi or
something. But whenever I email people to be on the show, I think the title
“Awkward Moments” makes them think that I’m going to make fun of them or
something. [laughs] Like, I’d love to
interview a scientologist, man that would be interesting.
COC: What advice
do you have for comics who are trying to start their own podcast?
CB: Have some
sort of structure. People start thinking that podcasts are just people
bullshitting. And, that’s not really the case. The WTF podcast is an interview show.
They’re not just shootin’ the shit, there is a structure to it—which is
following their career path. Comedy Bang Bang I love a lot, which is an
interview/improv show with characters and humor, and there’s a point of view to
it. What it comes down to it is this: Nobody really gives a shit about other
open-mikers who just make each other laugh for an hour and a half. There should
be a structure to it.
COC: How do you
think the podcast has helped your stand up?
CB: In the
beginning of the podcast, I talk and do an intro. It’s sort of an account of
what I like to do in stand up where it’s just me and a microphone and I have to
bring something worth saying—and whether or not it’s something you want to
listen to, I leave that up to the listener. But, it forces me to be creative and
it forces my brain to work in a way that it should when you’re writing in a
notebook and forming thoughts.
COC: Advice for
other comics?
CB: The
biggest inspiration to my comedy has been Facebook ‘Likes’, I’ve gotta get more
of those... [laughs] No, but here’s
what I would say as far as advice forreal: Get on stage as much as possible
because the thing that is the most in your control, is your ability to do stand
up. GET ON STAGE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. And, just because you’re funny in front
of your friends doesn’t mean you’re funny in front of an audience who has no
idea who you are. It’s great getting up on stage in front of your friends and
making them laugh, but you have to get in front of an audience who has NEVER
seen you before. You gotta do that. And also, be honest with yourself.
COC: With all the
negativity you have experienced, how do you think you have matured through it?
CB: I’ve
been an asshole, and I can’t be that asshole anymore. I cannot fucking do it. I
have problems and I’ve said mean things about enough people for them to NOT
book me on their shows, and I just cannot be a fuckin’ asshole anymore. But, I
have ALWAYS taken full responsibility for being an asshole. Even though that
doesn’t mean much because you’re still an asshole! [laughs]
COC: What are your
future goals in comedy?
CB: The
goal is to just be myself. That notion of stripping that artifice away and just
being myself. I think it’s something I am getting closer to. It’s one of the
reasons I feel that I’m better and much funnier when riffing and improvising as
opposed to when I am doing prepared material. It’s that fear and insecurity of
feeling, “People aren’t ALWAYS laughing, therefore I’m failing and everybody
hates me!” Which results in me experimenting less than I should be. It results
in me creating more jokes, and I don’t know if I’m necessarily a “joke guy”.
And I love a well crafted joke, like Anthony Jeselnik or Mitch Hedberg, and I
love that style but I’m not convinced that that’s me. I think I’m more of just
a “weird ideas” guy. [laughs]
COC: Final
thoughts / words of wisdom:
CB: I
think I have a lot of anger and a lot of problems that have definitely hindered
my stand up comedy career. But, in terms of the bitterness and the anger and
the jealousy that I’ve had, the way these things have hindered me the most is
that they've given me something to obsess on instead of my act. Every time I
have gotten upset about someone or something, I’m not creating. So you have to
think, “What are your goals in this thing?” And my goal is ultimately, to make
people laugh. I want to create things that are funny. And I want to do that
through a variety of mediums.
David Gavri is a stand-up comedian, writer and founder of the online comedy sites Gonzo Fame and Comedy Scene in Houston.